Sunday, July 13, 2014

Bittersweet (revisited)


 Here is an excerpt from a new book I am reading called "Bittersweet"...

"This is what I’ve come to believe about change: it’s good, in the way that childbirth is good, and heartbreak is good, and failure is good. By that I mean that it’s incredibly painful, exponentially more so if you fight it, and also that it has the potential to open you up, to open life up, to deliver you right into the palm of God’s hand, which is where you wanted to be all long, except that you were too busy pushing and pulling your life into exactly what you thought it should be...it is not life's cruelty, but a function of God's graciousness."

That's the season right now for us. Change... A redirection from the norm.  If life is always sweet, it rots our soul...if it's bitter, we get to experience life and develop the true grace that we need to be whole. When I wrote my last post, that's how I felt about moving forward without our daughter in our arms. It felt SO bitter, but beautifully sweet at the same time.

She is being lifted by name in prayer by hundreds of people that she's never had before.  Can you even imagine, that this tiny little girl was chosen to be the one to be in on this adventure? She has to be pretty darn special right? And now she will get to know God..through love and support. THAT is beautiful.

She is able to be reunited with her biological sister, who she absolutely adores. Seeing them together is just something I will never forget. Her older sister, very young herself, after getting a piece of food, would always pinch off a piece for Eliana. She would always hold her hand automatically to lead her where she needed to go. She would let her sit in her lap and let her do the annoying things that sisters do without ever complaining. She would teach her how to use her little iPad and teach her how to hold a pencil. To think about them not being together in the future is so heartbreaking I can't even put it into words. But now, they are together. THAT is sweet.

To think about a beautiful young mother (who is exactly my age by the way) that wants her children, if the work can be done to help her heal,  to give her grace and forgiveness and to teach the TRUTH to her (that she is worthy, loved, forgiven, chosen...) ..that she can feel empowered and take care of these children and they can be a family again. THAT is SO sweet!



I can just envision the day I see my "brother from a darker mother" (Francis) in Uganda, and he can take us to their home, and I can see these kids together, running to their mama to be hugged, and seeing that mother smile and experience the joy that comes from those moments. THAT is beautiful.

To take away all the beautiful and sweet to focus on the bitter isn't productive or encouraging, so if anyone feels sad or bitter for our family, please don't... focus on the SWEET that's to come for Eliana.
Because redemption...THAT is oh. so. sweet.



Thursday, July 10, 2014

A Bitter and Painfully Sweet Goodbye


As many of you know, we had a flight scheduled tonight at 6 pm to start our journey to Uganda for our second trip. This morning, I woke up at 1:00 am and tried hard to go back to sleep but couldn't so decided to check my email. I had emailed the lady who had performed our private investigation and asked about some of the content of the report. She responded back with news that sent chills down my spine.
The dishonesty began a very long time ago unknown to us and knowing more about the case now, it screams child trafficking and corruption. The kind you watch and read about in the media and cringe...the kind where you just wonder how in the world did this get so tangled? There is so much more to the story that there is no way to explain it all in a blog post and honestly thats now not my story to tell. The family felt hopeless, but when asked privately, they said they WANT their daughter and granddaughter, if only they could support her financially. At first thought, I said to myself, "well, they can't financially care for her, so she can't stay there." But the more John and I thought about it, the worse and worse we felt.

Poverty alone is never a reason to adopt. It's not right, it's not ethical, and it's certainly not biblical. We said from the beginning, we wanted to commit ourselves to an ethical adoption, one in which the mother and father are deceased or if alive, want nothing to do with their child.  A Ugandan child that has a mother that wants her should be with her mother. Period. And if we truly are caring for orphans and widows as we were originally called to do, then it certainly isn't taking someone's baby due to poverty.  I know most of you have heard this verse:


Now this holds a different meaning in addition to adoption that I didn't understand before,  it also means to help widows and as I (very selfishly) want to ignore that little tidbit, it's there for a reason...because it's what is right.  It's not always adoption that provides his redemption and love. It's helping others because you love that child and widow like they were your own child or mother. To adopt this little girl, after knowing this, would go against everything we believe in.  Since the day the biological mother was discovered something hasn't felt right. We couldn't put our finger on it and we don't think it's a coincidence that we found these things out in the early morning of the day we were set to leave.  I didn't understand the need to "help them help themselves" until I was in Uganda and saw firsthand that what these people need to end the poverty cycle is empowerment and education. I fully love and support adoption of course when there is no other alternative, but there has to be a change within the cycle or it keeps being repeated over and over again. Simply going to the country, handing out clothes, shoes, money, etc. is helpful, but what happens when there is no more handouts?

This is undoubtably the hardest decision we have ever had to make, to work so hard to make something happen that is honoring a child that deserves so much more, and to see it crumble right before us is agonizing, but this is the end of this chapter for us. It's shocking to even type. I know it's shocking to read. Everyone wants a happy ending, I know. Oh how I wish I could say it was less complicated and we could post beautiful airport pictures and live happily ever after. However, this adoption..the highs and lows have been some of the most stressful, meaningful, fulfilling, confusing, yet beautiful adventure I personally have ever taken. I can't even begin to explain the life lessons I learned in regard to poverty, the AIDS epidemic and the stigma associated with it, African culture, adoption corruption, and what it means to truly submit to control. I have learned how selfish I really am, how the feeling of helping someone who can do nothing for me is more fulfilling than any fleeting feeling of buying more for myself, that my problems really aren't problems, that I complain too much, that I had no clue before what true need is, that I should never judge a book by its cover and the person in need that we tend to overlook may also be the very one who saves us.


So although heartbreaking, the positive lessons far outweigh the bad. I am so thankful Eliana has so many people praying for her now and forevermore. I am so thankful to have so many giving, gracious friends who selflessly endured this long, extremely unpredictable ride with my family and held my hand every step of the way and never gave up, even when I felt like it. I saw God alive in so many ways that I would do this all again just to experience Him the way I had the opportunity to during this time. I learned the true hearts of people that I underestimated before....and learned that meeting a friend/spiritual mentor can happen in the most unlikely places (yes, even in a random van on the other side of the world).
There is going to be a lot of work ahead for the family in working towards being able to provide enough to live comfortably, but education and psychological counseling are two very strong components in beginning the reunification of a family.  We plan to be a part of this process as well, working with an organization in Uganda whose work is dedicated solely to this. Ellie will go back to Arise and Shine and be with her sister Rebecca, until her family can get on their feet and then ultimately be reunited. Now that in my eyes, is a happy ending. That is the way God intended it.  It still stings and hurts and will take to time to recover from, but we have faith this is best for Ellie.

We don't know what the future holds for our family..but I am so thankful and fulfilled to have 3 little healthy boys who call me mama. That is enough, and having a daughter..if even for a little while, was worth it and to God I am forever grateful for that privilege.
Please keep our family and more importantly Eliana's family in your prayers. I know everyone loves and cares for her already and has so many questions but please just give us some time to heal and move forward from everything for now. I mean that in the nicest way possible, it's just too fresh and we are still processing everything as well to answer too many questions right now.
On a much more positive note, Your donations are still sending Francis to college, and I can not wait to present this to him and will keep everyone posted once he decides on his University and curriculum! We raised $4,000! That is a great victory in itself.
THANK YOU all, your hearts and love is something I only hope I can give back in some way some day. Thank you for sharing this with our family...I hope God taught all of us just a little bit through this adoption. I didn't lose a daughter, I gained a big piece of my heart I never even knew I was missing.

Sunday, June 29, 2014

It's been awhile..


I've been updating my Facebook page and realized that I haven't updated my blog in a while. We have been crazy busy this summer since I got back from Uganda. We decided to get a Private investigation done and a DNA test, to rule out any other possible surprises that could give the US Embassy any reason to deny us. So right now, we are waiting on 3 things...the new court ruling, the PI investigative report, and the DNA results. On Friday, the lady conducting our test went to get results and they came back inconclusive. She said that they are doing the test again on Monday in hopes to have a definitive answer. She said the testing company told her that this happens on occasion and it is nothing to be concerned about. Also, it has been 9 days since they went to court, and the judge took 9 days last time to issue the written ruling, so we are hoping that we will get that ruling early this week. If we can get that this week, that is all that's needed to go to the US Embassy appt...so I could possibly be going at the end of the week to Uganda...that way I can get an appt with the US Embassy next Monday or Wednesday. They only do appts on these days. But I had rather have the DNA and investigative report done before I leave, where I am not waiting for that while in country. It's not necessary for the Embassy, but I feel like it will give us more leverage for an approved case. So please pray for the ruling, and results of PI come back early this week where I can fly over at the end of the week!
Just wanted to update everyone, I have had lots of people ask what we are waiting on and I know it's all confusing to keep up with! I thought I was going to be there by now..but the tests and rulings are taking longer than anticipated (of course!)

Thank you all for your love and prayers and about those thank you notes....um, yeah I kinda stink at those these days.  So many have done so much for our family and just know although I am being oh so "Un-southern" and not writing a thank you on my monogrammed paper (ha!) that I am beyond grateful for your meals and notes, and gifts , and prayers for our family these past few months!!

And lastly, for everyone who has donated so far to Francis' college fund, a huge thank you! If you are not on Facebook, you can see the link below and read all about a fundraiser I started a few days ago. We have already reached 35% of our goal, $1040.00! If you haven't donated, please consider it. If anyone deserves this gift that keeps on giving it is Francis!

https://www.giveforward.com/fundraiser/vfy4/francis-onyinge-s-college-fund



Saturday, June 7, 2014

Let Him Take Care of the Mountains...

I received the following in my inbox this morning from Francis in Uganda. If this man can't go to school to become a teacher then it would be a giant waste of a brilliant mind!  

"Weeping may endure for a night but joy cometh in the morning." Psalms 30:4-5. 

" My dear Amy, many are the pains a mother goes through. Do not let any thing or any one take away what you did or what you are doing for Ellie here. Even one day with love is better than a thousand spent else where full of hate. Jesus is always perfecting our love for people, and I can assure you that it won't stop even in Heaven. Please don't look at the negative because when they are juxtaposed and contrasted with a second or a micro second of positive love and goodness extended to the least in our world, it pales in comparison. No, pale is too soft; it dies. Negativity dies in the presence of a stroke of positive. In this world you will meet a cocktail of people who do things that can break your heart or pinch your heart to the point of lifelessness, but do not give them that energy. You are too decent for that. You live above the emotional average. You are better. As a child of Jesus and His amazing follower, good, better and best and non starters. Excellent is where you start. The only condition for this in Christ is that we don't have to do this in our ability. Read Zachariah 4:6."t any thing or any one take away what you did or what you are doing for Ellie here. Even one day with love is better than a thousand spent else where fuJesus is always perfecting our love for people, and I can assure you that it won't stop even in Heaven. Please don't look at the negative because when they are juxtaposed and contrasted with a second or a micro second of positive love and goodness extended to the least in our world, it pales in comparison. No, pale is too soft; it dies. Negativity dies in the presence of a stroke of positive. In this world you will meet a cocktail of people who do things that can break your heart or pinch your heart to the point of lifelessness, but do not give them that energy. You are too decent for that. You live above the emotional average. You are better. As a child of Jesus and His amazing follower, good, better and best and non starters. Excellent is where you start. The only condition for this in Christ is that we don't have to do this in our ability. Read Zachariah 4:6."


I read Zachariah 4:6: "So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty."

God had promised through the prophet Zechariah the obstacles to Zerubbabel's task of rebuilding the Temple would be removed. He said , "Nothing, not even a mighty mountain will stand in Zerubbabel's way; it will flatten out before him!" (4:7) 
He can turn mighty mountains into roadways of redemption. On this "journey" to Eliana, the only way to overcome obstacles is by faith in God's power to move these mountains. It can not and will not be my willful personality, or my sheer willpower...that's simply not enough to get through any roadblocks we will face....He made the mountains and He will tear them down in His time. In Zech. 4:10 He says, "Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin." 
Because of that promise...we will walk, step by step, and let Him take care of the mountains.

Friday, June 6, 2014

She isn't mine...

I got home and couldn't keep my eyes awake past 6:30. All of my mind wanted to enjoy the comforts of home and to relish in my boys, but my heart couldn't even bear the thought of Eliana and her sister being on a dirt floor somewhere, hungry, and mistreated. I know what she was like when I found her and I know I can't let that happen again. So after talking to John , we finally figured out how to dial Uganda from an American number and we spoke directly with Alone (the director). He wouldn't answer the attorney or Francis all day. I told him he had 2 choices...to have the girls ready to pick up when they woke up (it was nighttime there) or I will have cops at his home to arrest him in 10 minutes. I asked which would it be? He agreed to sending them with Francis, only if we had the paperwork with him to prove our guardianship order. So Francis got the order from our attorney, Rebecca, and today is getting them.
I heard from Rebecca, and she said the judge said that she is willing to resign papers and meet with the living mother to sign an irrevocable release because she saw the difference in Eliana while with me and she deserves to be with me. So as long as the mother will sign, we can move forward. Thankfully, I know she will be taken care of, fed, and treated the way she should be at Arise and Shine. My friend told Sharon, the lady who runs it, thank you. She said, "I have to take care of these babies. Who else will?" People like this....how do they help others so abundantly when they have nothing themselves? They live in a place that is so hopeless and depressing and still..just continue to nurture others every single day. So inspiring and I just pray one day I have that much spirit, patience, and love and can help others as they have me.

I read this morning in my devotional,
“SEEK MY FACE, and you will find fulfillment of your deepest longings. My world is filled with beautiful things; they are meant to be pointers to Me, reminders of My abiding Presence. The earth still declares My Glory to those who have eyes that see and ears that hear.
You had a darkened mind before you sought Me wholeheartedly. I chose to pour My Light into you, so that you can be a beacon to others. There is no room for pride in this position. You part is to reflect My Glory. I am the Lord.”
Psalm 105:4 – Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.
Psalm 19:1-2 – The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.
Isaiah 60:2 – See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the Lord rises upon you and his glory appears over you.

I had a very hard time understanding this morning when I woke up (at 1 am our time by the way) the whys of this situation. Then I read this and I have peace. I want to have "eyes that see and ears that hear." I want to see the "beautiful things" that God has shown us so far. I got a slap across the face almost that He said "She is not yours. She never was. She never will be. She is MINE. You are mine. Your kids are mine. Your husband is mine." Why am I to feel like something was taken from me that was never mine to begin with? Pride? As I read this passage..it clearly says "There is no room for pride in this position." It is all for HIS glory. It's His story to tell. Not mine. And what a beautiful story she is.
First day we met Eliana


Far left is last day


Goodbye

The call came from Jen, Rebeccas mom at about 1 pm, as the girls were going down to nap. She said "I have bad news. There is a mom that is alive. They went to the fathers grave and found a mom living at the home the father was buried." I felt like the earth just collapsed. I panicked , didn't know who to call, or what to do. I called the US Embassy, got no good news, called my attorney, she was shocked and heartbroken and completely at a loss for words. She was angry of course.  I called Jen back and we spoke for a while and agreed I had to come home, Francis would take Eliana to her medical, thank God I got her passport that morning already. That deserves a whole post in itself...that whole experience. Let's just say I have never been so thankful to be American.
So we called the orphanage director, and his brother came. But first, we had a huge meal. Pizza, pita bread, ice cream, chocolate cake, and any candy they wanted to eat. I brushed their teeth and mom packed their bags. They were so happy and full and played with bubbles and laughed and laughed. They had no idea what was going on.
We walked them down to the car to meet Francis and the orphanage director's brother, and they even got in and waved. They thought we were coming too. We always have... But we didn't. We cried and cried and went back upstairs to an empty room. It was horrible. The worst thing either of us has ever had to do. Then suddenly via Facebook I spoke with a sweet friend, Amanda Morgan, she is a FB adoption friend. We have never met but she has saved me numerous times in this process. She knew of a lady named Sharon who is willing to watch them at Arise and Shine in Jinja until we can sort anything out and see if there is a chance we can work this out. So I called Francis, to get the kids. BUT, Alone (the director) would not give them back. He said he is taking them. I screamed and demanded and told him I was having him arrested but to no avail. We drove to the airport in silence, through bumpy backroads and Francis prayed another amazing prayer and gave me his strong words of encouragement. As always. That man never fails to surprise me. He is undoubtably one of the most beautiful people I have ever met. I say beautiful not in the way I would have ever thought beautiful was before being in Uganda. Beautiful is not our bodies or in our possessions.  True beauty is Francis. His heart for God. His light always shining in his actions and words. THAT is real beauty...he will be a lifelong friend. So we got on that plane that night and had no idea where the girls were or if they were ok. It was devastating.
The flights home were uneventful and long of course. We cried on and off and wondered why. Then we finally landed in Nashville.
John and my boys greeted me with lots of flowers and hugs and love and I couldn't quit crying as I hugged them. I, even now, can't quit crying. It's just so bitter sweet..being home, but having a piece of my heart still missing still on the other side of the world.

Sunday, June 1, 2014

Weekends are SLOWWWWW

So the weekends here are very slow so we are trying to stay busy and stay outside and enjoy the beautiful weather. It is very pleasant here, cooler than home even. During rainy season (which we are in) , the weather is very nice because the rain keeps it cooler. We are getting in a good rhythm with naps and bedtime...they usually go down for a nap around 1:00 so thats a good time to blog and catch up on some computer stuff.
The first 2 weeks weren't too bad and now into the 3rd week, I am really missing my boys (all 4 of them). It is much worse on the weekend when we have no immediate goals to work on. Also, there are Ugandan holidays coming up...which means offices are closed. So medicals are only done on M, T and F and they are closed this Tuesday for Martyrs Day so I don't know if we can finish medicals like I anticipated this week? Also, the Embassy only does appts on Mon and Wed. and they are closed next Monday for National Hero's Day! So we couldn't get our Embassy appt on that day either. So if every star aligned and we got medicals done this week and then we could do our Embassy appt. next Wed. then we could pick up our visa on that Friday. But the chances of that happening are very slim:(
We will just have to wait and leave it all in God's Hands because it is nothing we can control!
Leaving the hotel here is hard..the pollution automatically gives me a bad headache and the smell of most of the people here is stifling. Body odor is a serious, major problem here! No one seems to notice or care though!
I was warned about this waiting period, and how hard it is, but I have to just soldier through it and keep as busy as we can. I miss TN so bad, I may kiss the ground when I return!
The girls are doing great. They seem to be having a big ole time here....but I suppose swimming and playing all day isn't so bad huh? They love the pool, so I took them down there all morning to play, then we went to lunch and waiting our usual hour for a cheese pizza:) They have been patient, and I am learning how girls operate now. Much different than boys for sure! Prayers for a good, productive Monday here...that we can pick up the passport and begin our Medicals this week. If we get that done...it's just one more stop until we are Tennessee bound! Of course I will keep everyone posted!!

Thursday, May 29, 2014

We got a ruling..and what comes next!

So, we got a call around 5:30 pm today, we got a positive ruling from court! Our attorney hopes we get our written one tomorrow but I am not expecting that of course. Monday/Tuesday would be much more reasonable to expect. I am listing the steps in country for my sweet friends who are following us each step of the way! I will try my best to explain and to not be too confusing..


  1. COURT! (May 20, 2014)
  2. Verbal Ruling (May 29, 2014)
  3. Written Ruling (May 30, 2014)
  4. Apply for Passport (May 30, 2014)
  5. Pick up passport (June 4, 2014)
  6. Go for IOM Medical Exam (June 20, 2014)
  7. Follow up for IOM Medical Exam Results (June 23, 2014)
  8. Court Rehearing for Birthmother and relatives (June 20, 2014)
  9. New Written Ruling
  10. DNA Results In
  11. Private Investigation Complete
  12. Document Review at US Embassy
  13. US Embassy Exit Visa Appointment
  14. Pick up Visa 
GO HOME!!!!!!!!

So we get our written ruling, and then after we get, we can go directly to the passport office to apply for her passport. This on average, takes around 4 days with our attorney, up to a week. Like I said, this is an average, and not to be confused with anything absolute. If I have learned anything it is not to expect ANYTHING! Taking it one day at a time is crucial for not having major meltdowns, which I have had and will certainly have again.
Then as soon as we get our passport, we can go and get her medical exam, which is a very basic physical and other basic tests, which we already have, but the Embassy needs to be able to travel home. After we go back to get our TB skin test read (in 3 days), we can schedule our Embassy paper review and appt..which is only done on 2 days a week. Then, after the appt, we can pick up our visa in 2 days to come home! 
So as you can see, we are at the mercy of the timing of these events to take place in a fashion that allows us to move through quickly or not. 
I do not know a date we will be home, I have no clue what obstacles we will cross, or if there will be any big ones. We just literally have to go day by day, step by step, until we reach the finish line!!
One thing is for sure, this sweet little girl, who I am learning is more like me than I ever imagined, will be very worth it!
Thank you all again for every single prayer during this time!!



Waiting on a ruling...and another little one with us for a while..

So it's the final day of waiting for our ruling..which was promised today. I wish it would just come already! I've done pretty good with the waiting so far. Much better than I thought I would. We went to Jinja yesterday for the day and it was so pretty! We took a boat ride down to the source of the Nile and it was so beautiful. We saw monkeys and birds and lizards and all sorts of interesting things! We took about 200 pics...only to realize at the end...there was no memory card in there! Uh!
Oh well, I have my memories I suppose. Then we went and ate at "Surgios". I had heard so many great things about the pizza there and they were right. Next to Francis' home cooked meal, this was my favorite meal yet. Then we went down to the town square to shop the local vendors. We definitely will be going back to Jinja to relax some more.
Ellie is doing great with us. Very attached to me, but now is able to go to Meme without crying and can tell me "bye" and know that I will be back. She is still sleeping so well and responding very well to our language now. She knows many basic words, she doesn't say them, but I know she understands me well for the most part. She catches on so fast! She knows potty and sit and NO (haha) and today my new one for her is "No whining". She tends to whine when she wants something bc she doesn't have the language to tell me but we are working on improving that!
Our biggest issue is food. The necessary evil these days. She screams at the store bc she can't have to things we put in the basket, even though we just ate...because she doesn't think she will get them later. She cries over wanting food and not having enough food and then on top of all of that, she is PICKY now. What you ask? The child 2 weeks ago who was wasting away to nothing? Yes, thats her! ha So I am working on really being strict at meals to help her along. That was something I was prepared for, but still as frustrating as it is for both of us,  I know she has a great reason to be this way...when all she has known up until this point is a meal a day and feeling hungry. Her taste buds are not accustomed to anything other than bland foods. So time will have to pass, and many tears will have to be shed, to ultimately click in her brain that YOU WILL GET FOOD. And it will be enough!
I wanted to put the bad and the good bc I don't ever want anyone to read this blog and think "Oh, its so amazing, she is perfect, and they lived happily ever after!" Just like my bio kids, there are challenges, just different ones. But she really is such a sweet little girl. She smiles a lot now and you can just look at her and know how happy she is. That makes me super happy. She has come so very far!
Her sister Rebeccah will begin staying with us after tonight for a week or 2. Her mom went to the Embassy appt yesterday and was told her case was being investigated and that it would take 1-2 weeks and her mom has to go home to go back to work. So I offered to watch Rebecca until she got her visa. If not, she would have to go back to live in Jinja, and believe me, I could not watch that happen. It tears my heart to even imagine her going back there to live like that. So I went from 3 boys to 2 girls while here...i am going to learn really quickly what life is like with girls! Rebecca is a sweet little thing, so we will be just fine.
Next time I post, we will hopefully have a ruling! Fingers crossed!

Monday, May 26, 2014

Who is Ellie?

Ellie is a little girl, who at first glance, we thought... was a weak, timid, scared, nervous, shy little girl. Now we know otherwise...the real Eliana. The real Eliana... dances every time she hears music, waves at passing strangers on the street, pitches hissy fits when you tell her No, loves bananas and muffins and despises most other fruits and veggies...she loves to sing "Hallelujah, Bodo Boko ( which means God is Good...I'm just spelling it how it sounds so thats not correct Lusoga by the way) Amen!"...she loves to play chase, look at herself in the mirror and talk, and absolutely adores shoes.  She is potty trained, and independent, and smart as a whip. She looks like a 1 year old, but has the agility and smarts of a child twice her age. She pushes limits and blows kisses and loves to sing to herself and play with dolls.
She is nothing we thought she was, yet everything we could hope she would, or could be.  She is no longer a statistic, an orphan, or a poor, voiceless child. She is our daughter. She was chosen, loved, and adopted by His grace. Every single ounce of glory belongs to God, who allowed this divine intervention. We are just the ones in between that said yes.